I would like to see us sign Shenton or Lee Smith, although the latter needs to prove himself at centre.

Ropati won a world cup last year, i did think him but he's left sided.

Cooper would be a quality signing, it would be nice to see him alongside Penny, as his defence is as good as any around. I'm pretty sure he signed a 2 year deal before the start of the 08 season, which would mean we'd have to wait until next year, if we were to show any interest, right?

PLEASE no more imports!

as reported in the media...precisely.

enormous amounts of speculation surround any transfer,when the papers get a whiff of it,they expand on it,do you think we would release a current international and ask for an unproven youngster and a player struggling for form,cash or cash plus mathers is understandable but with the reserves flying and ts not being afraid to blood youngsters goulding wasn't in the equation.

if tony smith would have wanted any of wigans squad don't you think he'd have asked for someone half decent like hock.

No, because we have plenty of second row cover. But we have no centres now with Gleeson gone and King not capable, therefore if we were to ask for a player it would be a centre. Surely that is entirely logical.



The Mathers thing is bit of a red herring and I doubt if his coming here was at all important to the overall deal. Indeed it might just be an interim measure in case a certain Bradford player becomes a guest at Her Majestys pleasure.



The one thing the Wigan supporters seem to forget is that surely this deal was entirely driven by Warrington. There will be reasons he is not wanted by Tony Smith and we can all speculate on what they will be.

One things for sure, Mr Noble will have his hands full!

why would you ask for centre who has only just broken into their first team when you are in fact looking to buy a proven centre from elsewhere,surely that is more logical.

I tend to think Smith is a man who looks at potential more and thought that Goulding could do a job and was [iright[/i for our team. Just look what has happened to us signing the proven Aussie international centre Matt King.



I hope Warrington have learned a lesson from the likes of Monaghan, Sullivan and King that player selection is more about getting the team mix right and not just signing 'star names'.



Regardless, we now have a team without the two first choice centres we started with at the start of this season.

There remains the possibility that there may not be the cap space now available that people assume?



After all, the recent activities of the gentlemen from HM Revenue & Customs could quite conceivably mean that certain players will now cost more under the cap than they were understood to cost hitherto?



Not trolling btw - I'm raising a serious point that could have implications for a number of clubs. Seemingly not the Pies...maybe Whelan and Mo were telling the truth a bit ago about offshore schemes after all?

Ashley Gibson

looks like a future world beater

The cap isn't affected by this HMRC enquiry. All the payments will be registered, but if a chunk of the money went in some form of contract not directly related to playing then there will have been no NI paid, and it may have affected liability for income tax, too - all perfectly legal. HMRC seem to think that too much money was paid for consideration outside playing the game, and they are seeking to establish a fair level and possibly claim back some tax if they can reach agreement with the RL.

jake webster for me if not matt gidley

Do image rights or payments to an EBT paid by the club or by a connected party not count on the cap?



If they DO - and RFL Operational Rules 5.6.6 & 5.6.7 state that they indeed do - then the "grossing-up" of any payments deemed by HMRC to be emoluments - but not previously treated as tax for such - would mean that a higher cost than hitherto would count under the cap. Wouldn't you agree?



Regarding legality: as I understand it HMRC are arguing, amongst other things, that what they regard as "excessive" payments for image rights relative to the whole package should have been treated as emoluments and subjected to PAYE. That they were seemingly not, they regard as the criminal offence of tax evasion - which is why they are seeking back tax/NI, penalties and interest. I know the issue of EBTs is also being looked at regarding overseas players - to me that's a potentially more worrying issue - but I'm not sure at what stage things are at there.

At the risk of perpetuating a boring subject, the rules on the tax treatment of 'services' like image rights are extremely vague, hence HMRC having a pop at it whilst other receipts are down. None of us can know if such payments were declared as part of the cap or not, but the HMRC enquiry is said to be about a block of clubs, not just Warrington.

Not "extremely vague", just not exactly clear on where the line should be drawn - hence (taking the image rights example) the 15% limit HMRC have been seeking to enforce. And its not "whilst other receipts are down" at all - they started pursuing the image rights issue a few years ago with soccer clubs. They've now moved down the pecking order to rugby clubs and other sports activities.



As for whether payments were declared as part of the cap - I am sure they all were, since the Operational Rules are quite clear on the subject. That's not the issue - its whether the tax & NIC that implicated clubs will likely have to pay - tax & NIC which HMRC is contending should have been deducted from players to get to the net amounts actually paid - should be "grossed-up" to give the gross payment effectively made. If that's the case, and given that going forward HMRC will expect these deductions to be made as a matter of course, then the amounts paid to players will have to be increased accordingly. And its THAT that would cause salary cap spend issues going forward.



I suspect most clubs have used the image rights device - some obviously more than others especially where those clubs have recruited marquee and especially overseas players. I'm not speculating on the EBT issue, which talk in the game suggests a few clubs with marquee overseas signings have made extensive use of, as I don't know as much about the status of the tax enquires there.



And, back to where I came in, the only reason I raised this was to suggest the possibility that you (and maybe some other clubs) might not have quite as much scope under the cap going forward as you thought you had. Some at Stains have speculated that it was in anticipation of this that they seemed to have cut back their spend on players a bit, and McManus apparently said they have room under the cap. Maybe the same applies to you guys, and today's movements are an indication of that?



Or maybe its all pure speculation anyway!

Back on the subject of top quality centres.....



there are very few in the UK.



Senior and Glees are the top 2, but the former is past his best (but still very good) and the latter has left.

I like Shenton, but Cas would be stupid to let him go.

Yeaman is good but perhaps not as good as he thinks he is.



After that you've got to look at the likes of Gibson and Smith but then ......



I'm struggling.





I wonder if when TS gets Matt King's confidence back if he'll move him to centre?

I imagine Bridge and Johnson would cover the other centre spot for the time being.



He could even put Vinnie there if he fancies Harrison at 13 (which I think he does).

Senior

Shenton

Atkins

Gidley

Gleeson

Yeamon

Mogg



SLs only really good centres imo, so unless its one of the above, I hope we have someone decent lined up from Aus.

I'd rather have Stuart Littler than Martin Gleeson

Surely Carmont is up there

like i have previously said. all this talk is pointless. let's get ourselves on track and then buy the sort of player who will see us as a good move for the right reasons and who will match up to our passion with effort.



York 79

In my opinion we need 2 centres and nothing less than top drawer will do, we should have a large chunk of salary cap available for next year with Martin Gleeson already being released and the likes of Briers, Hicks, Rauhihi, Stuart Reardon and possibly one of either King or Monaghan to go as well.



These are the sort of right centres we should be aiming for that would make us a serious threat to Leeds or St Helens in the backline.



Right Centres:



Mark Gasnier (Its worth trying to sound him out)



Justin Hodges (At some point Folau will be the regular right centre at the Broncos)



Michael Jennings (If only he hadn`t signed a new deal recently)



Jamie Lyon (Wouldn`t be my first choice as he is a few years down the line since his saints days and ive not seen him show anywhere near the level of his saints form for Manly, granted he has been at 6 for most of the time but when he has been at right centre he hasn`t looked the same threat as the Jamie Lyon of old, yes its a tougher league but still ......

Can we really afford to wait until next year for a replacement.

IMO- NO we need 2 now not in 12 mths I want to win something this year and to wait until next season to replace anyone means my season ticket is worthless as we do not intend to compete until next season and I would want a refund for selling me a season ticket under false pretenses

Gidley??



Then again we can all dream